In this episode, Andy McQuade says the quiet part out loud and discusses both the race to the bottom and the incentives built into construction and remodeling that encourage the “cheaper is better” mentality and increase costs to the owners of a project over time.

Why do we care? The goal is to Massively Increase Your Net Operation Income ™ with The TCO Method ™

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The TCO Method ™
Episode 03 
Saying The Quiet Part Out Loud
Hosted by Andy McQuade

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Welcome to the TCO Method, the only show focused on helping you massively increase your net operating income.

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I am Andy McQuade and thank you so much for joining me for this second episode, right?

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Second official episode of the TCO Method. Today, we are going to focus on saying the quiet part out loud.

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And there’s a few of them in real estate, right? There’s a few of them in construction, but the one I

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want to talk about is the one that is sort of my pet peeve. And I’m going to apologize in advance.

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Again, this is the third actual episode of the TCO Method. First one was a sneak preview.

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Second one was two cars, no brains. And this one is going to be focused on saying the quiet part out loud,

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which should be interesting, but probably won’t make me a lot of friends. So with that, we’ll get right into it.

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The quiet part that I want to talk about that everybody sort of needs to be aware of is a little

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complicated, but not really complicated. So I spent the vast majority of my career on the supply side of

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construction and property management, doing and working with procurement operations for builders and

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whatever. So I was a sales guy, right? Long story short. And a part of what I noticed in the later part of my

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career as I was working more with the operations, maintenance and management of properties, they had a

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lot of things that were caused by decisions made years prior. And it was costing money because they

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decided to pick product or service or whatever XYZ during construction or remodeling renovation,

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whatever you wanted to call it. And it wasn’t necessarily the best fit for the use of that property.

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Right? So there’s a lot of talk in modern procurement and purchasing now about highest and best use,

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most value to the company. But the reality is that the priorities of the construction company, the

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remodeler, the renovator are not the same as the priorities of the operator of a multi-family

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commercial property or an office building or whatever. So a lot of times decisions are made so that they

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can come in on time and under budget, which means that the product has to meet whatever specs are

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laid out by the architect at the beginning of the project, which is a whole nother thing that we’ll

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talk about because architect specifications, just I did it for a year, working with really high-end

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commercial architecture shops across the country and some of the biggest cities servicing some of

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the biggest national clients. And I can tell you right now that the architect is not always

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in it for the customer or their benefit and they’re not always in it for

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the tenant and what the best use is going to be for a space. So there’s there’s graft and there’s

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bribery and there’s money that changes hands and kickbacks and librarians in some of these huge

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places that want to get paid to put products into a spec to put them out for the architects to pick from

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in the libraries. There’s yeah, there’s just there’s just a lot of very unfortunate things that

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happened with some of these larger firms that I was completely oblivious to until I actually had a

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sales team going into these offices and working with some of these places. And you know six months in

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when we had a librarian basically say, hey, I want 5% of whatever it is that gets sold into this job

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if I recommend your product. I was like, what? It’s freaking blew my mind. Needless to say, we didn’t do

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that because that’s a huge issue, but as a product manufacturer and supplier, I was like, wait,

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this is actually a thing. I’ll explain so much, so much about why bad decisions are made. But in

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any event, there’s this thing that I call race to the bottom, right? And this is a quiet part being

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set out loud. The reality is that the builders and contractors that are working on these projects

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are interested in a couple of things. Completing it on time and making it look pretty to whatever

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the customers expectations are because that’s where most of their headaches come in.

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The second thing is they want to make sure that it lasts for whatever the duration of the warranty

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is that they offer. It’s a one year warranty, two year warranty, 90 day warranty, no warranty,

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they don’t want to own it after whatever the workmanship warranty is that they put on that project.

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Which means that your average tenant, and we’re talking in multi-family right now, your average

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tenant is going to stay in a unit for maybe two or three years. And then you’ll get to update and

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refresh, but you’re not going to do a full turn most likely unless there’s damages. For somewhere in

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the five, seven to ten year mark, obviously the longer you can go without a massive renovation cost

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on your capital expenditures, the better. But there are certain, we’ll call them bones in these units

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that don’t need to get refreshed every time you go in and update the paint colors in the carpet

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in the countertops and the cabinets and light fixtures or whatever it is you’re doing.

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So the quiet part out loud is that we literally incentivize the builders and contractors that we hire

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to do these projects, whether it’s new construction renovation doesn’t matter. We’re paying them

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to put the cheapest junk they can put in that will last for as long as their warranty lasts,

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and that’s it. Unless you specifically give them the exact product choices and selections that

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they have to use for the project with no substitutions, they will find a way to put a less expensive

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product in that does the same job, but that helps them come in under budget. Why? A bunch of reasons.

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Number one, because stepping over dollars to pick up pennies is not their problem, right? I’ve

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seen operators do this too, right? Big multi-family operators, over ten thousand doors under management,

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and they would rather put stuff in that starts to have issues after three years and then pay their

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guys to go into these apartments and maintain them and operate them and do whatever it is to keep them

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functioning the way they’re supposed to or just let them run endlessly and just use utilities and

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cost the company more money as opposed to paying extra money at the beginning of the project

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during a rehab to do it right. So it takes all kinds and I’m not judging. Everybody has their own

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reasons why they do things, but I do question the logic if you’re going to own and operate a property

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long term. Why you would choose to put something in that you know will have problems that you know

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will cost you more and that you know you probably won’t change again for 10 to 15 years.

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It doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. I don’t know that it makes a lot of sense to a lot of people

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when you put the numbers on paper. It just doesn’t seem to make sense. So my advice is to avoid choices

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like that right this brings in the whole two cars no brains conversation from the last episode.

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And yes I am talking about the two cars no brain situation but we’re going to put it more specifically

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into this race to the bottom conversation that we’re having. So we pay project managers

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to come in under budget and on time. We pay construction companies to come in on time and within scope.

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Construction companies pay their project managers to come in under budget. And depending on

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how far under budget they come in they get a bonus nine times out of ten. So we’re accepting

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and incentivizing bad behavior at the fundamental root level of the industry because we’re directly

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tying compensation to cutting corners and calling it good performance.

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There is something called value engineering that gets thrown around a lot by both building

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materials providers and by builders construction companies GCs subcontractors whatever you want to

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call it. If there’s labor and materials involved they will pitch this value engineering thing to their

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clients. Now the problem with value engineering isn’t that it exists. It’s that nine times out of ten

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especially in the last call at five to ten years. They will value engineer all the value out

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to secure a low price. So what’s the problem with that? Well for example we used to have a

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customer of mine back when I was working at the lumber yard who insisted on value engineering

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all the trust packages for these homes. They’re put in 716 so SB on the roof and they would insist

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that the trust is on a roof would be spaced two foot on center and value engineered

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so that they met code but they didn’t care if that plywood sagged and you could see sags in the

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roof after their workmanship warranty was up. This was the track home builder so they would build you

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know 90 to 110 homes a year and all they cared about was the lowest price possible.

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Well when you drive through those tracks even now you can see every single one of those sheets of

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plywood has a belly in it. Now it looked fine when that first homeowner bought it but do you think the

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curb appeal factor lowers the property value of that home when they’re going to resell it? Well right

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now inventory so low would it really affect anything if the roof isn’t leaking? Probably not.

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But when it becomes a buyer’s market and sellers are desperate to sell do you think there would be

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a concession because of roof is saggy and just looks terrible? I think there probably would be. I’m

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pretty sure it’s actually happened. It’s been a while but I’m pretty sure it’s happened.

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So they value engineered the value out but added value to them because their workmanship

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warranty is 12 months. So once somebody signs that dotted line and takes a position at that house

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you get a leaky faucet a leaky toilet leaky roof whatever it happens to be the builder’s on the hook to

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come in and fix that labor and materials. Once that’s over it’s whatever the manufacturer’s warranty

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if you can find proof that that is the specific product like good luck identifying the siding on

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your house 15 years down the line. Building materials companies just don’t maintain the exact same

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product typically in the exact same configuration for that long. Like the warranty might be 30 years.

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Number one it’s going to depreciate after say five to seven typically sometimes it’s sooner

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sometimes it’s later but good luck actually matching that product like you’re not going to be able

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to something goes wrong you have an insurance claim whatever anybody who’s ever lived through this

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knows they have to basically fight to get the entire visible section covered by the insurance

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company because you can’t match it whether it’s because of fading because they don’t sell that

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particular product anymore the wood grain change the colors a little different the sheen is a

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little different like just a ton of things that go into building materials that people don’t think

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about but the reality is that anything after the first 12 to 24 months is going to be on the owner of

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that home regardless of whether there was a manufacturer’s warranty or not I mean half the manufacturer’s

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warranties out there aren’t transferable anyway so the builder buys the product puts it in the house

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it’s a non transferable warranty so if the builder calls to say hey I need this part the assumption is

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going to be the builder still owns that and it’s still covered Joe homeowner calls up and says hey I

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got this part serial number blah blah blah if it was registered it probably wasn’t registered to them

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if it wasn’t registered you got a 50 50 chance of them honoring the warranty

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because they’re going to want proof of purchase as a homeowner have proof of purchase for faucet

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for shingles on a roof no they don’t so it’s going to be a he said she’s

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said in good luck getting any money out of it and when they do give it to you it’s going to be

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materials only not labor so in a lot of cases it’s not even worth pursuing

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because the labor is the more expensive part anyway I got off on a tangent my apologies

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and this might happen more often so I’m going to apologize in advance

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so the quiet part out loud is how do you control as an operator of properties for income

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how do you control these incentives that have been rolled out since the dawn of construction

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how do you incentivize or remove the incentive to just put the cheapest possible thing into these

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apartments or into these spaces I’ve seen flippers and no offense to flippers I know a ton

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I know a ton of people who flip who wholesale who property manage who do you know renovations

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themselves in house operate crews hire crews out they don’t care what they use

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so you can buy a turnkey flip that’s being advertised as turnkey for a run all ready to go

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and it’ll have laminate floors what happens the first time a laminate floor gets wet

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swells up like a balloon in the picture of the wood that stamped on top of it peels off or wrinkles

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pushes against the walls it pushes against you know cabinets it just it’s it’s hot garbage and yet

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in 2023 we still see people using it why because it’s cheaper than a good LVT

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and it’s definitely cheaper than an engineered hardwood

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what’s the difference between an engineered hardwood and a laminate a laminate is literally cardboard

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press board glued together with a picture of wood grain stuff put on top it may be actual wood grain

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it might be a very thin layer of wood with a finish on it but nine times out of ten it’s a

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printed picture of wood and a pattern and maybe a texture with a coating on top to protect it

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from wear and tear from physical stuff but because it’s a pre finished floor the first time you spell

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something on it at least down underneath and then that leak sits on the sub floor and soaks into

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your flooring and it makes it swell and fail

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engineered flooring that’s actually a very thick

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you know like quarter inch maybe a little more of hardwood slab hardwood

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which is then applied using special glues and a lot of force to a very resilient

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plywood base not cardboard and even though it may be a pre finished product sometimes it can

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come unfinished so you can put a finished coat on top of it but anyway long story short

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there apples and oranges so i’m not talking about engineered hardwood i’m talking about

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laminate junk cardboard press board and it’s the same thing with you know MDF base MDF shoe

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the the biggest difference is that typically your your base boards and your trim in your house

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that are going to be MDF aren’t going to get direct exposure to water spills because they’re not

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laying flat on your floor right if you have a flood they’re probably going to fail but so is the

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prime finger jointed pine or whatever that you would have had there anyway would have had been

00:19:43,660 –> 00:19:48,300
ripped off and in replace so it’s it’s six and one half a dozen of them another in that case

00:19:48,300 –> 00:19:55,340
but if we’re flooring it’s a complete joke yet it’s used all the time you know very very

00:19:55,340 –> 00:20:00,540
similarly we see very inexpensive low quality paints that are very hard to touch up

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that are almost transparent in some cases depending on how they’re applied and who applies them

00:20:05,500 –> 00:20:10,940
being used for rentals and then you know you get a spot on a wall from somebody moving in

00:20:10,940 –> 00:20:18,060
and on your move an inspection you know it’s there you offer to fix it you end up having

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a repaint in an entire wall instead of being able to just touch up one spot so

00:20:25,180 –> 00:20:33,180
the stuff that goes into these units does matter right chasing the race to the bottom for that bonus

00:20:33,180 –> 00:20:41,340
for that you know that project manager you need to put things as an owner if you’re involved in

00:20:41,340 –> 00:20:48,700
this type of project where you’re hiring a GC to build for you or you’re hiring a subcontractor

00:20:48,700 –> 00:20:56,460
to come in and turn units and you’re doing you know labor and materials because we’re into a whole

00:20:56,460 –> 00:21:02,140
different conversation with the the owner of the building or the owner of the property

00:21:02,140 –> 00:21:06,700
buying the materials because then there’s no incentive for the builder or the contractor

00:21:06,700 –> 00:21:15,340
to reduce waste and it’s not unusual for a home builder to buy the framing package

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and supply that for the framing carpenter that’s going to actually stand the house up right

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they’re just there is labor and there’s things you can do from an inspection standpoint to make

00:21:27,020 –> 00:21:30,460
sure that they’re not generating too much waste and to hold them accountable you know in their

00:21:30,460 –> 00:21:35,820
final payment for that how do you hold somebody accountable when stuff starts failing that they

00:21:35,820 –> 00:21:42,300
bought three four five six years ago and it’s failing you know extremely prematurely because

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it’s the wrong product or a inferior product to what could have been used that should have been

00:21:49,740 –> 00:21:58,220
used right you can you can do a specification sheet that spells out exactly what the products are

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builders and contractors hate that because they can’t use the supply chain and the vendors and

00:22:05,340 –> 00:22:10,620
the relationships that they’ve already got in place unless that product is available everywhere

00:22:11,420 –> 00:22:19,260
and if you do or equivalent in the specification that means that they get to shop around

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and the definition of or equivalent changes drastically

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because just because there’s a product out there that works for a purpose

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and looks similar doesn’t mean that it forms long term in the same way

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you can buy product a and use it and it’ll work for four years and then it has a catastrophic failure

00:22:45,740 –> 00:22:52,060
that requires repairs or maintenance or costs extra money to operate in utilities or

00:22:52,060 –> 00:22:59,020
or water sewer or whatever or you can have the better product that costs more

00:22:59,020 –> 00:23:07,020
that is a stable product for you know five ten fifteen years depending on what it is

00:23:07,020 –> 00:23:12,700
and it looks the same and just costs a little bit more at the beginning of the project but we’re incentivizing

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bad behavior by paying people bonuses based on the race to the bottom

00:23:23,260 –> 00:23:36,460
and it’s a super widespread problem because you’ll see this whole RFPRFQ soliciting bids I want three GCs

00:23:36,460 –> 00:23:44,300
and three subcontractors and three material bids and there’s no ifans or butts when it comes to

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relationship to value to partnering and innovating with your vendors there’s just we just need to get

00:23:57,180 –> 00:24:05,420
this job and be cheaper than everybody else and if our service is terrible oh well they got what they

00:24:05,420 –> 00:24:10,540
paid for there’s not enough margin in there for us to babysit this project we’re gonna drop ship

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stuff and it’s gonna get there when it gets there and if they don’t like it oh well you know and

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and the worst part is that now covid the pandemic

00:24:21,580 –> 00:24:28,860
basically gave everybody a pass on logistics and transportation because of supply chain

00:24:28,860 –> 00:24:32,860
disruptions that made the news every 30 seconds and they’re still using it today

00:24:34,700 –> 00:24:40,940
and while yes there are still some supply chain snafu and hiccups that are impacting

00:24:40,940 –> 00:24:49,260
building materials and construction a lot of companies now just default to the supply chain issues

00:24:49,260 –> 00:24:57,420
as the root cause of their lackluster service delivery when it might be that they’re looking

00:24:57,420 –> 00:25:02,380
to save money and so they’ll get to it when they get to it because it’s more affordable to do so

00:25:02,380 –> 00:25:07,660
than to deliver the same level of customer service they were delivering prior right we see it with

00:25:07,660 –> 00:25:18,540
these box stores on the building material side where over 50% of the employees in a building now

00:25:18,540 –> 00:25:25,900
are part time there’s no skin in the game for them there’s no incentive for them to take care of

00:25:25,900 –> 00:25:29,020
the customer because it’s just another part time job it’s not a career

00:25:31,580 –> 00:25:36,620
some of the stuff is very technical and it’s not something that your average joe is going to be able

00:25:36,620 –> 00:25:42,300
to give a good answer to like i love it when i hear people with horror stories from going to

00:25:42,300 –> 00:25:49,020
hardware store a big box store and being told you know something simple like

00:25:49,020 –> 00:25:52,220
window glazing old homes

00:25:52,220 –> 00:25:58,780
historical homes use window glazing to keep the window pains in from the outside

00:25:58,780 –> 00:26:09,740
literally heard someone the other day tele customer that they could just use whitecock

00:26:09,740 –> 00:26:18,540
i guess it could it’s probably going to be a bad day in about a year but

00:26:18,540 –> 00:26:22,780
yeah you could probably cock it i guess i don’t know i don’t know

00:26:22,780 –> 00:26:28,780
the wrong product the guy didn’t even know what window glazing was like they still sell it on the

00:26:28,780 –> 00:26:39,660
shelf it’s in a different area but it’s there so just you know interesting little tidbits of

00:26:39,660 –> 00:26:50,140
bad info that comes from having people that do whatever for a living and it’s just another part time

00:26:50,140 –> 00:26:55,420
job they’ve never really worked in the industry or if they did they swung a hammer for a few years but

00:26:55,420 –> 00:27:01,900
you don’t need to be a technical genius to swing a hammer you don’t need to know how paint works or

00:27:01,900 –> 00:27:07,500
what window glazing is doesn’t qualify you as an expert for those particular things you want to tell

00:27:07,500 –> 00:27:12,700
somebody you work as a framer for 25 years even on super high-end homes you want to tell somebody

00:27:12,700 –> 00:27:18,140
how to frame a house or how to you know frame out a window or a door or you know the do-sheeting or

00:27:18,140 –> 00:27:23,500
or any of that kind of stuff you are probably qualified to do so even if you were just a laborer

00:27:23,500 –> 00:27:28,300
because you have to cut and measure and carry and stack and you’re going to absorb over time

00:27:28,300 –> 00:27:32,940
how it’s supposed to look and what’s what it’s supposed to do and hopefully why you’re doing what

00:27:32,940 –> 00:27:43,500
you’re doing but if you’re going to give somebody advice on how to paint a wall it’s like having an

00:27:43,500 –> 00:27:53,020
electrician replace your faucet on your sink instead of a plumber right like I don’t get it but anyway

00:27:53,020 –> 00:27:58,860
back to the topic the race to the bottom is probably the worst thing out there for the industry as a

00:27:58,860 –> 00:28:06,060
whole because it costs my customers I’ve seen it personally for years and it’s part of the reason

00:28:06,060 –> 00:28:11,660
why I do what I do now honestly because it creates a huge amount of construction waste then just

00:28:11,660 –> 00:28:15,820
all sorts of bad things for the environment it costs a lot of money to repair and deal with

00:28:15,820 –> 00:28:20,540
and maintain and it’s you know it’s a pet peeve of mine like I said at the beginning of the show

00:28:20,540 –> 00:28:25,260
that people are still participating in the race to the bottom and the only way to change it the

00:28:25,260 –> 00:28:30,540
only way I can see to change it is going to be to stop accepting it as the norm

00:28:30,540 –> 00:28:36,780
right you can’t do laborer materials we already talked about the the risk of loss and theft

00:28:36,780 –> 00:28:43,900
and all the other stuff if you’re buying materials and not letting the contractor own that part of

00:28:43,900 –> 00:28:52,140
the process there’s going to be shrink loss of value loss of product loss of time whatever it may be

00:28:52,140 –> 00:28:59,580
if they’re not responsible for the product the only way I can see to fix the problem is to have

00:28:59,580 –> 00:29:07,980
very specific product specifications with no substitutions allowed in the contract for the actual spec

00:29:07,980 –> 00:29:14,060
the problem is that people don’t do what I do every day even architects and designers

00:29:14,060 –> 00:29:21,660
have no idea what the useful lifespan or what the maintenance impacts are of those products

00:29:21,660 –> 00:29:29,260
after they’re installed in a unit for its intended purpose like you can have conversations

00:29:29,740 –> 00:29:36,380
with your architect near designer about useful life and resilient products

00:29:36,380 –> 00:29:45,100
the downside is that the useful life and resilient products that they recommend and know about

00:29:45,100 –> 00:29:51,660
are the ones that the vendor reps show up and train them on in a luncheon learn and that are in

00:29:51,660 –> 00:29:59,820
the libraries and in the you well guides online they don’t actually have first-hand experience

00:29:59,820 –> 00:30:06,940
with the lifespan of usable products or how it fits into the lifespan of an apartment building

00:30:06,940 –> 00:30:16,540
because that’s not their job they’re involved in the very front section this big little tiny little

00:30:16,540 –> 00:30:24,620
tiny section of time that the project is being built and then they’re done they’re paid when the

00:30:24,620 –> 00:30:30,300
project is complete or maybe before and their involvement ends like they don’t even get warranty

00:30:30,300 –> 00:30:34,780
calls because it’s not their problem all the stuff that they recommend in the library and they put

00:30:34,780 –> 00:30:40,780
into the designs were approved by the builder and maybe by the customer depending on exactly how

00:30:40,780 –> 00:30:47,580
that relationship was set up at the beginning of the project so the real question is I guess the real

00:30:47,580 –> 00:30:56,940
point is less than a question you need to bring products that you know are functional and have a

00:30:56,940 –> 00:31:04,940
longer useful life and more resilience to your builder and to the architect to say this is what you

00:31:04,940 –> 00:31:12,380
are going to use come heller high water and if you don’t like it I will hire someone else to do it

00:31:12,380 –> 00:31:21,020
why is that the quiet part out loud because it’s a gap that’s existed since the dawn of time in

00:31:21,020 –> 00:31:25,820
construction as long as I’ve been involved and I started working in the industry in 1997

00:31:25,820 –> 00:31:29,420
and it still exists today and there’s no good answer for it

00:31:31,580 –> 00:31:35,740
because they want to own the products they want to own the relationships and they want to find ways

00:31:35,740 –> 00:31:40,700
for them to save money so if you’re going to do this and you’re going to dictate exactly what gets used

00:31:40,700 –> 00:31:47,020
and in what way they’re probably going to charge you more money for the inconvenience of

00:31:47,020 –> 00:31:52,220
of having to you know basically lose margin in an area where they would get their bonus

00:31:52,220 –> 00:31:58,460
so I don’t know if that’s the right answer I don’t know if anybody else has answers

00:31:58,460 –> 00:32:05,820
email me let me know what you think am I just making this up is this not a problem

00:32:05,820 –> 00:32:13,180
everybody sees do people just not care is just a part of a cost of doing business because I know that

00:32:13,180 –> 00:32:18,300
unexpected expenditures like having to replace an entire floor in a rental because the tenant

00:32:18,300 –> 00:32:24,860
decided to spill water or had a leaky faucet is probably not going to help your NLI numbers at all

00:32:25,980 –> 00:32:30,780
I guess if you can write it off as an insurance expense and your insurance doesn’t skyrocket because of it

00:32:30,780 –> 00:32:35,500
maybe you’ll be okay but one way or that there’s a cost that’s going to impact your business

00:32:35,500 –> 00:32:40,540
from a failure that happens prematurely whether it’s a leaky faucet that costs you extra money

00:32:40,540 –> 00:32:46,380
on your water and your sewer whether it’s a light fixture that needs to be replaced prematurely

00:32:46,380 –> 00:32:50,540
because there’s no bulbs in it to replace because you for whatever reason decided that an

00:32:50,540 –> 00:32:56,780
integrated led was the right answer for that project maybe it’s something you know a little bit more

00:32:56,780 –> 00:33:03,500
technical like you decided to have concrete stamp create walkways put in this nice place that’s an

00:33:03,500 –> 00:33:11,660
Airbnb and then the property maintenance people decided to throw rocks out on it and it completely

00:33:11,660 –> 00:33:18,460
crumbled after a year because it wasn’t sealed properly anything can happen in this industry

00:33:19,740 –> 00:33:26,620
and I guess everybody involved in the process should have a fiduciary duty to extend the useful

00:33:26,620 –> 00:33:33,740
life of it for as long as possible but there’s no incentive to do that on the construction side

00:33:33,740 –> 00:33:40,780
on the architect side on the implementation side at the beginning of the process

00:33:40,780 –> 00:33:46,220
it’s the people who operate the property later that are stuck with that and it just becomes a part

00:33:46,220 –> 00:33:51,980
of overhead and I guess if it’s an outside property management company that doesn’t own the actual

00:33:51,980 –> 00:33:59,500
place it creates work for them to charge more than the 8% 10% whatever of gross rents that they’re

00:33:59,500 –> 00:34:05,900
getting to to maintain and operate that property so there’s there’s a few different levels

00:34:05,900 –> 00:34:11,820
that change has to happen on and I don’t know how to do it I don’t I’m an industry forever

00:34:13,180 –> 00:34:20,940
it’s very slow to adopt change and it’s even slower to change something when they’ve been getting paid

00:34:20,940 –> 00:34:29,260
and incentivized through their pay structure to step over the dollars to pick up the pennies

00:34:29,260 –> 00:34:35,980
at the beginning phases of a construction rental project so let me know your thoughts

00:34:36,700 –> 00:34:45,500
that’s all I got for today it will be the 16th of May when this comes out Tuesday first episode

00:34:45,500 –> 00:34:55,660
live on Apple podcasts so please like subscribe leave me a comment share it let your friends know it’s

00:34:55,660 –> 00:35:02,300
out it’ll be out everywhere but it’ll be the first day it’s on Apple podcasts please go there leave

00:35:02,300 –> 00:35:10,460
a comment leave a reply tell me you think I’m a dummy tell me that the industry will change tell me

00:35:10,460 –> 00:35:18,620
the industry won’t change give me an opinion I love to hear it I love to have in-depth conversations

00:35:18,620 –> 00:35:25,580
about technical stuff like this and I appreciate your time talk to you next time

00:35:25,580 –> 00:35:39,980
DCO method

00:35:39,980 –> 00:35:42,560
(upbeat music)


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